Free Choke Chooser™-Perhaps…

Submit a question to The Technoid, and IF we post the Q and A, we will send you a FREE Choke Chooser™, a $3.99 value. And an inestimable value if you start hitting those longer targets.

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Low Shooting SxS

Dear Technoid:

I have a SxS I own that is shooting low. The patterns of both barrels had the same point of impact but were well below where I was aiming (I do realize I’m supposed to point and shoot and not aim, but I’m looking for a point of reference). About 95% of the pattern was below my point of aim at 40 yds.

Shouldn’t the barrels shoot dead center to the point of aim relative to the rib? If not, what point of reference does a barrel regulator use when he/she is regulating the barrels?

Why even have a rib at all if it cannot be used as a point of reference either consciously (aiming) or subconsciously (pointing)?

When I am shooting, the gun does shoot higher because I am not cheeking the gun as hard. But it seems to me that the gun should shoot “spot on” relative to the rib. Am I wrong in this assumption?

Thanks in advance for your help.


Dear Clark,

Part of point of impact (POI) is objective and part is subjective. Unless you are shooting birds that are always dropping, a low POI is not a good thing. With the exception of trap, most manufacturers like to set their guns up so that the POI is centered when viewed right along the rib. If you rifle-sighted the shotgun, the pattern would be 1/2 above the aiming point and 1/2 below. This is called a 50/50 pattern impact.

Some field shooters and sporting clays shooters prefer a gun with a 50/50 POI. Others prefer one that is perhaps 60% high, 40% low. Some shooters, like trap shooters, may like it even higher.

For modest vertical changes of POI, nothing needs to be done to the rib or barrels. They continue to be set up to shoot 50/50 when rifle sighted. The raised POI is obtained by increasing the height of the stock so that the shooter sees a bit of rib and the gun shoots a bit higher.

If a great deal of increase is required in the POI (such as trap), the rib itself is often raised at the rear, but kept low at the front so that the view down the rib will be closer to rifle-sighting, but the POI will be high.

SxS guns a somewhat special. When they are fired their tend to flip their barrels downward slightly. This is called “downflip” and causes SxS guns to shoot slightly lower than O/Us. To overcome this SxS guns are normally set up very slightly higher than O/Us.

Should your SxS shoot spot on relative to the rib? I dunno. Without seeing the gun and the rib, I can’t really tell, but I would think that it should be close. I see a fair amount of rib on my SxS guns, but they shoot dead on. A SxS with a normal swamped game rib really is shot “off the muzzle” not off the rib anyway.

For a practical fix, just layer some duct tape on to the top of your stock until the gun’s POI is raised to where you want it. Then get it bent at the stock maker. Yes, you will end up seeing more rib than you do on your O/Us, but that is the nature of your particular beast. In the field, you will never notice the difference.

Best regards,

Bruce Buck
Shotgun Report’s Technoid
(Often in error, never in doubt.)

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Lewis Class

Dear Technoid,

Out here in CA, we have only a few top notch courses plus anything that involves “guns” is looked at with a jaundiced eye. Not “politically correct,” you know. So we shooters keep a fairly low profile.

However, being somewhat of a contrarian and looking for an excuse to go shooting that my wife couldn’t argue with, I talked our company’s employees club into sponsoring a Turkey Shoot. I had 20 participants (including several ladies) out of a company of 500. The participants were mostly non-shooters, we shot 50 clays at the local sporting clays course and did a deli lunch. Everyone had a great time and would like to do some more. One guy’s wife was in the Pro Shop afterwards signing up for lessons. (So much for political correctness!)

My question is this…. I’d like to set up a class system for awarding prizes. Our scores were pretty evenly spread from 1 to 28 out of 50. My plan is to award class prizes plus one or two raffle prizes. Between early morning sips of coffee, could you provide me with some info on how the Travelers’ system works? Or tell me who to write to for more info?


Dear Logan,

Attaboy! For introducing your company to the joys of clay shooting and poking your finger in the eye of political correctness, you are hereby awarded the coveted Junior Technoid Order of the Palm (third class). Well done! Your personalized genuine plastic pocket protector will be arriving by Email any day now.

One of the most popular methods of awarding prizes at “fun” shoots is the Lewis Class system. Here’s how it works. Let’s say that you have 20 shooters and want to award 5 prizes. You wait until the shoot is over and collect everyone’s scores. You divide the five prizes you have into the 20 shooters and come up with a Lewis class number of “4”. You then simply give a prize to the person with the highest over all score and then a prize to every forth person after that counting down the list of scores.

Prizes would go to the #1, #5, #9, #13 and #17 placed shooters. Other than first overall, it is pretty much luck, but still has some vague relation to how well the person shot. It is easy to do and everyone has a pretty good shot at winning something. If scores are tied, solve it by coin flip, or if there is time, by some sort of little shoot off. Spectators love shoot-offs. Make sure to call each group of four shooters a “class”(class 1,2,3,4 and 5). It makes everyone feel better to say they “won their class”.

Also, I would suggest that your shoot committee spring for a couple of those throw-away cardboard cameras. Take pictures of everyone holding or shooting their gun and post the photos on the company bulletin board.

Wear your JTOP (3) with pride. You earned it.

Best regards,

Bruce Buck
Shotgun Report’s Technoid
(Often in error, never in doubt.)

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Ask the Instructor: Changing Chokes

Source: Ask the Instructor: Changing Chokes

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Hartmann’s Hint #7: John Doe

Source: Hartmann’s Hint #7: John Doe

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Are Fixed Chokes Dead?

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Selling Dad’s Remington 3200


I would like to sell my dad’s Remington 3200 Over and Under 12 Gauge Shotgun. I
have the paperwork showing it was updated by the Remington Arms Company in
Ilion, New York in February, 1986. I need help please with how to go about
selling it. Thank you.



If one of your local gun stores handles shotguns, take it there and ask if they
would buy it or take it on consignment. They can give you a rough idea of the
selling price by consulting the Blue Book of Gun Values. It will depend on the
model, configuration and condition. They should tell you that. A plain field gun
in 98% condition is worth about $1,000 retail, while a Pigeon Grade Competition
trap can be worth over $2,000 when the dealer sells it. Expect to get 1/2 to 2/3
of that price from the dealer.

Or you could put up a “for Sale” notice on the bulletin board at the local gun

Or you might try posting on,, or They will give you a feel for what
others are charging and are a good spot to list your gun.

Best of luck,
Bruce Buck
Shotgun Report’s Technoid

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Open Skeet Chokes

Dear Bruce,

Any ideas about really open chokes for 12-gauge skeet?!! I was reading in Bob Bristers book about shotgun patterns that a Russian fellow used some extremely open chokes to run 200 straight in International Skeet. He mentioned that the actual muzzle diameter on this gun was approx. .830, or nearly .100 larger than the actual bore.

In my own experience, I have found that my .001 and .002 constrictions hit targets quite hard. Do you think that chokes more open than cylinder would help scores in the 12-gauge event.

Thanks again


Dear Greg,

I competed seriously in International Skeet for over a dozen years. We were allowed to use 32 gram (1-1/8 oz) loads then and I always shot with cylinder bore and a slight machined flare at the muzzle of my 1100 barrels. Beretta and Perazzi skeet chokes of the time were also either cylinder bore to a flare (Beretta) or a slight jug choke to a flare (Perazzi). My Russian Baikal MU-8 had a Tula choke (named after the Russian arsenal at Tula). This is what Petrov used to shoot that first 200×200. It was sort of like a built in Cutts compensator without the slots: cylinder to jug, to slight overbore choke to flare. Krieghoff and Perazzi copied the idea. The theory was that they would work better with the fiber wad loads. My jugged Baikal and Perazzi Comp One patterned better with standard Federal plastic wad loads than they did with the master blaster Winchester fiber wad International Skeet loads. They were both a pain to clean. My cut-off 1100s (cylinder to flare) also preferred the plastic wads. I had a couple of Krieghoffs (M-32s) also. One had the Krieghoff jug choke and one had a standard skeet choke. The standard skeet choke patterned better with the shells I was using, though I don’t remember what it miked. Today, Olympic loads are down to 24 grams (7/8 oz) and IntSk shooters have to choke up a bit.

In American-style skeet, where 1-1/8 oz is still permitted, standard skeet chokes run from cylinder bore to about .007″ on the tight side. Many domestic skeet shooters use the tighter end of the spectrum because they are really thinking about the doubles only shoot-offs that come after the automatic 100 straights. The tighter chokes let you “read” your breaks better, but cylinder bore gives a very slightly larger effective pattern (read the exhaustive article in SR archives on skeet patterns).

How important are big patterns at American-style skeet? I just don’t know. Many of the very best skeet shooters in the country win major twelve gauge events using 7/8 oz loads and 20 gauge tubes in their O/Us. .005″ to .007″ is a very popular constriction range for those 20 gauge tubes. They giving up pattern size in order to get gauge to gauge gun consistency. It sure works for some of them. Bigger patterns aren’t always the answer.

Best regards,

Bruce Buck
Shotgun Report’s Technoid
(Often in error, never in doubt.)

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Browning 725 Sporter

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Show Birds

Source: Ask the Instructor: Show Birds

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Shooting in the Rain

Source: Shooting in the Rain

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