- Intro To FITASC April 14, 2021
- Where’s The Ammo? April 13, 2021
- Dangerous 5 Stand Situation April 12, 2021
- Sportrap 2 April 9, 2021
- Sportrap 1 April 8, 2021
- Report Pair April 7, 2021
- Simo Pair 2 April 6, 2021
- 410 Chokes And #7 Shot April 5, 2021
- Report Pair-Two Techniques April 2, 2021
- Shooting Methods April 1, 2021
- Bill E. on Where’s The Ammo?
- Bill E. on 410 Chokes And #7 Shot
- Bill E. on Browning B-2000
- Edward Engarto on 2021 Browning 725 Game/Hunting
- Earnest W Musgrave on Browning B-2000
- Dale on 2021 Browning 725 Game/Hunting
- Stevd on 5 Stand @ Werribee AUS
- Ed Sybert on 5 Stand @ Werribee AUS
- Richard Jones on Tough Courses
- Stephen Brown on Miroku MK11 Sideplate
I have been shooting 5 Stand intensively for the last two weeks, and twice, while at stations one or two, I have been confronted with a muzzle pointed very nearly at me, fingers on the trigger.
At our 5 stand, the only one I have ever shot, the number one thrower is located directly behind stations one and two, and throws the targets from in back of the shooters, over their heads, and on out into the field.
When target number one is the first one launched for shooters at stations three, four, and five, at least two of them have held their guns too low while “at the ready”, thus presenting the hazard I’ve described. The obvious solution to this is for the menus to avoid target one as the first target when stations three through five are shooting. I assume that if I have experienced this twice in two weeks, it is happening frequently.
I write this not knowing if the situation exists universally, or just at my club. I would be interested in your comments, and those of your readers.
Few things in life are more thrilling than standing in Stand One and watching the guy in Stand Three lean forward and pivot to the left to point those twin tubes of death right up your snoot. I would have shot first. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of behavior or course design. Not only is that the designer’s fault, but it is also the shooter’s fault. If the shooter doesn’t know where his barrels are pointing, he should take up golf.
We don’t shoot too much 5 Stand format around here because the locals much prefer the freedom of the FITASC format. 5 Stand is designed on a commercial format to “jam ’em through” just like trap. It is well suited to high volume situations like re-entry events at shoots. It is less suited for club usage and practice. That is where the FITASC format does better.
Also, I think that FITASC is much safer than 5 Stand format. In FITASC, like skeet, the guy in front has the loaded gun and that is it. I always get a little edgy when people on either side of me on the trap or 5 Stand line are fumbling around with loaded guns. Trap is so regimented and the birds all out in front, so their safety record is OK. 5 Stand has yet to convince me.
The fix for your 5 Stand safety problem should be very simple. First, talk to the guy who pointed his gun at you. It is just possible that he is so stupid that he doesn’t realize what he did. Then talk to the range manager about the safety of his layout.
There is nothing inherently dangerous about an overhead going away shot on the 5 Stand. It is a fairly standard format for NSCA franchise 5 STand. I don’t happen to like it because, as you have seen, it can cause trouble.
Changing the target sequence as you suggest might help, but I don’t think that it is the best solution. I would really have to see the layout to know for sure. Remember, if you can physically pivot all the way around to take a target coming from the rear, some bozo will try it. I would hate to rely on just a change of sequence for safety. It would be better if it were impossible to shoot the guy in the next stand.
The best solution would be to eliminate the target and move the machine to a place in front and to the side of the shooters. A second-best solution might be to improve the caging system. Most 5 Stands that I have seen use “V” shaped cages. These are popular because they are cheap to make, portable and easily stored. They are ideal for the NSCA traveling road show trucks. They aren’t very safe though.
The best 5 Stand cages that I have found have been standard box cages with rear entry, not a front entry. A bar is placed across the cage, but NOT all the way to the front. The bar should go across the cage at belt height about two feet or so back from the front. This will physically prevent the shooter from leaning far enough forward to be able to draw down on the guy next to him. Many shooters don’t like this restriction on their freedom of movement, but I think that freedom from being shot wins out every time.
Still, I think that the safest approach is just to eliminate those come-from-behind targets that cause shooters to pivot back. Sooner or later something bad is going to happen due to that presentation. The right way to design a safe 5 Stand is to make it safe from the start.
Shotgun Report’s Technoid
I visited my local gun stuff supply place today and tried to buy a bag of size 7 shot. I was told that size 7.5 was the size I was looking for and that nobody makes 7. What goes? Is this true or not.
One other question. I have just become the owner of a Browing Super light 410 O/U with fixed F&M chokes. I’m thinking of having it tubed to shoot skeet with it. Is it worth the investment or should I learn to shoot it the way it is??
Thanks for the time and keep up the good work.
Sure there is #7 shot, but it is not common today. Decades ago is was THE preferred size for American ruffed grouse. In Britain and Scotland it remains the preferred shot for driven grouse, although under British sizing standards it is called #6 shot. For clay targets shot larger than #7 1/2 is prohibited in all the games because it will carry further than normal and isn’t needed to break a clay at normal distances.
If you are just dying for #7 size shot, simply order it from your dealer. It may take a bit longer to get, but I am sure that Beikirch’s up in your neck of the woods can get if for you.
The standard chokes for 410 skeet are between .005″ and .010″. Wayne Mayes shoots .009″ and .010″ in his 410 tubes. Many skeet shooters use .005″s or .007″s. I have absolutely no idea what Browning has in your gun, even though Mod and Full would indicate about .012″ and .020″ in the 410. You should actually measure to see what you have.
If it were me, I would leave it alone. It will cost $350 to have Briley tube it. If you really aren’t happy with the F&M, a local gunsmith could always hone out the chokes for a lot less than that.
The problem that a lot of people have with 410 is that they blame low scores on the chokes, not on the fact that the 410 is a miserable idiot stick to begin with. Opening up the choke may help a tiny bit, but not a whole lot. Besides, the way it is, it is perfect for sub-gauge sporting clays.
Shotgun Report’s Technoid